haha yes Sandro true.......the question is tho which of those x chromes made it to PTB's litter, that's unknown when they are both equal crosses in the same generation. I prefer to go with whats proven in that context.

wld you or anyone else know of other duplications in the x path to Famous Portrait thru full blood relations or littermates top half and bottom half of a ped ?

On Famous Portrait, its one of the best crossed (Mandalass, Brocatel, Tapestry) dam lines right the way back to the likes of Poke The Bear, Shimaguni, Run The Risk, Primo Uno, November Fury, Greasy Grizzly, Frosty Fruits, Walk Alone, Lion Hearted, Rapid Hiker, Tenthill Doll, Golden Currency, Propulsion etc

Ill be disappointed if something in the litter cant run!

Matt, thats the challenge for us all. To try get in a sires minute elite percentage. All sires have a gun dog. We all have our favourites I guess.

I've had a quick look within 5 gens and only Poke the Bear in that list of yours meets that criteria and he's equal in x with Tranquil Flame, so not a standalone x path . There may be other city types carrying littermate combinations in x of Walkabout Sid/Famous Portrait top AND bottom 6,7,8 gens back in the ped that meet the criteria to create that intensity, it's just a worry if they are hard to find, cos then you ask why is that case ?

To give you an example I linebred Secretly many years ago in the x path thru full blood relations or littermates and thought how goods this I've almost got this all to myself. There was a bitch in the litter that could really run but she had pannus. She came within half a len of breaking the straight track record at Azzopardi's where everyone trialled in those days, but she cldn't take a corner, she'd run straight for the outside fence at the first bend.

My point is that having an almost one out intensity like that is more likely a bad thing than good, because there may be a reason why there aren't many of that same proven x path intensity thru littermates or full blood relations both top AND bottom of a ped around.

It may be an almost one out intensity like that top AND bottom in a pedigree cld give up nonnies or fighters for example. In our case it was pannus, cos the trainer thought we'd have a red hot chance of giving the Laurels a real shake with her at the time. For the amount of times Secretly was in x top AND bottom of a ped thru full blood relations or littermates https:/ CLICK HERE , there should have been heaps that were successful at city level with that citeria, and I think from memory at that time I cldn't find a handful.

Again I'm not saying that will be the case for linebreeding thru littermates in x to Famous Portrait as a standalone, but I start to worry if there's none within 5 or 6 gens both top AND bottom of a ped by now, then where are they all ? As I said they may well be there in the 6th,7th or 8th gen etc., I haven't bothered to keep up since I stopped doing dog form but if I were breeding a litter that's one of the things I'd want to know about a possible isolated x path. Cheers.

p.s. to stay on topic Postman Pat's litter is primarily and intensely linebred in the x path thru different individuals yet littermates Goddess of Fire and Awesome Assassin to Light of Fire/Tranquil Flame and that list I posted earlier is what evidence of that primary intensity in the x path working should look like.

Keeping it on topic Hooked On Scotch the sire of Postman Pat isnt line bred in the x path to Tranquil Flame or Famous Portrait, like dam Nicki Fields first litter was and I recommended that mating to Darren Puleio, when I tried to purchase Nicki Fields.

Btw Fernando Bale was still racing at that time in Feb 2015. Also, Awesome Assassin was a top tier sire and didnt need linebreeding his Tranquil Flame to be successful.

What Ive found is breeding has moveable parts, building blocks if you like and you can get around not linebreeding so intensely and it still work very well.

Anyway, now its an even more notable mating of Hooked On Scotch to see how it turns out. Because on face value, it has a lot of similarities to Postman Pats pedigree. The reason for mentioning it in this topic.

I've already said from a Tesio perspective your mating is a hot one, but my estimate of Tesio theory successes by itself is say a third, of giving up a city type. So to bolster that base percentage I look to x, where the success rate to a proven x path can be up to 55% as with Lemon Soda for example, of giving up a city type. That's not to say other cornerstone brood types will perform at that level. Put both theories into a ped and hope for somewhere between 35%-45% chance of breeding a city type depending on external factors.

Not at all meaning to disregard your list, but I asked if anyone knew of x paths top and bottom to Famous Portrait thru full blood relations or littermates to see if that will bolster your chances of success with that HOS/Pennybacker union, so when you posted that list that's what I looked for. Unfortunately doesn't appear anyone else is interested in assisting which is a shame.

Your mating has the Tesio theory well and truly covered, but the x path to Famous Portrait to bolster your chances may be unproven as a standalone. That concerns me for the reasons I've given, obviously not you and that's fine. Not much you can do about it now anyway.

I don't really understand the points you are making re HOS, FB or AA, but if you're saying they don't have a primary x path, they actually do but not to Tranquil Flame(as Postman Pat does), or Famous Portrait as you say.

Who knows, when your mating fires it may actually motivate me to look for the more complex x path successes to Famous Portrait.

Well done btw on advising Darren P re HOS' ped, I didn't realise. g/l again with your mating. Cheers.

p.s perhaps start a breeding topic if you wanted to continue this discussion. I'm running out of PP references ;)

9 Black Shiraz
10 Bombastic Blonde
11Larkhill Joe
12 Witch Magic
13 Premier County
14 Nifty Niamh
15 Bett Lee
16 Leprechaun Yap

The interesting observation from this is that all sixteen of the above are descended from the 1949 English Derby winner Narrogar Ann, the only bitch to win the Produce Stakes and the Derby, she was a litter sister to the Group 1 bitch Narrogar Mary. Ann was a six month bitch so to do the double was special. When mated to Derby winner Priceless Border she had Endless Gossip winner of the 1952 Derby, this line has produced 48 winners of the English Derby .
All 16 finalist in your last two $500000 races are from this super bitch line whos mother was the very fast Winnie Of Berrow

[Edited Admin]

Mark,

Excuse my ignorance, but what makes/prompts you to pass that comment about the dog?