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Dog/s Seizing after 500m Run
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 27 Feb 2024 11:13
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Anyone have any ideas on this ? I now have 2 out of the same litter with the problem. Blown pupils and seizures after the run. Its extremely frightening , they don't do it over any less distance. I thought it was a once off , but obviously not.... Its not my normal breeding bloodline .
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 27 Feb 2024 22:40
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Robynne
I am not experienced in this exact problem and in no way suggest you follow my advice , its just what I went through and experienced myself 1 time with 2 dogs
I had Poeple saying not enough calcium etc with a very fast Bitch , 18.60 old Richmond 19 flat bulli then every time up to 400 + she would collapse
In the end I stopped racing her coz I couldnt watch it and tried everything , heres what I tried
1. EXTERNAL LINK 2. Euro carb tablet 3. Bi-carb soda powder 4. Carprofen tablet , both tabs are inflammatories to keep muscles and urinery tracks clean and relaxed These are administered after the run . If you use a kidney flush before or close to a run , she will have no nutrients in the dog to perform and repair itself . It is 2 days after the run
Blood tests full and viewed by a GREYHOUND vet ! A normal vet wont have the understanding of the greyhound breed and their numbers !
This was step one above
Nothing came back from tests and it still occurred , I gave up on her after months of tinkering this around a bit and in the end , instead of caging her up in kennel , I now leave her out all day to work as she wants and I took her off everything including kibble ( due to salt ) and shes as good as ever and never had a drama again , mind u I never trialed her again on track !
Another dog I had similar issues with was a dog called big benno 40kg dog
The routine I used for him was a shot into muscle of Aminoplex 1.5 ml / tripart 1 ml combo ( a vet use will do double this when water diabetes occurs ) 3 days before race it swabs 48 hours
Then after he ran same day I would do the same shot with also a euro carb tab , bi- soda teaspoon and carprofen tab 1 in his feed that night Carprofen tab again with euro tab next day
Kidney flush every 14 days
Benno performed lovely and was upbeat under these procedures
EXTERNAL LINK These are the best rehydraters in the game after runs and trials . Throw away all your other recharging powders , they are a waste and will do more harm to kidneys then good
I use coconut water / lectade mix at track 50/50
After hard race runs when they put in an uninterrupted flying run I mix up the isotonic mix and put over meal ,most wont drink it on its own . Caution with ratio , i find 20 :1 perfect mixing in litre portions or small teaspoon to large cup mixed with kettle hot water . It will swab ! Its only for use over 2 days after race ! I leave 5 day gap for race .
Advice , besides above info is see your closest greyhound vet first but with full bloods and disclose everything you do in your routine as it will help him diagnose !
He will agree with all other procedures Ive said
Good luck robynne, its heartbreaking I know
Peter Bryce Australia (Verified User) Posts 708 Dogs 0 / Races 0 28 Feb 2024 01:31
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Problem can be as a result of Kibble Diets Salt at 2g per Coffee Cup of Kibble (1 to 3% of the 20kg bag of kibble). Excess Sodium Chloride hardens arteries restricts blood flow, Cramping, Stroke and Heart attack can follow. Lack of Iron supplement and subsequent thickened blood cant pass through Arteries,Heart,Brain,Liver and micro veins in Muscles which causes a lack of blood to the brain resulting in fitting and seizure. Red Blood Cells in Greyhounds have a life of 110 to 120 days and as cells are dying daily they need continual replacement - Hence Iron Supplement every second day. Worming products are Poison by nature and detoxification of the Liver is essential a few days after Worming. Methionine is great to achieve this. A Kidney flush is also essential to remove Toxins. Vitamin C Supplement is crucial for the absorption of Iron.
Nathan Bendeich Australia (Verified User) Posts 1225 Dogs 13 / Races 0 28 Feb 2024 01:59
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The 2 dogs I gave an example of were also on daily 1mg iron and 2 tabs methionine. Robynnes issues still occurred .
I didnt divulge my full diet as I dont think the iron and methionine are a direct result of the underlying issue , to be fair most trainers already have this in place and I know of many GRP trainers who dont use it also for no drama
I believe there is an issue there , wether its just genetics you have to work around with the methods I suggested or with luck you might find an issue with the bloods or a urine test .
I dont believe an iron and methionine is the only problem as my extra methods contain these minerals also .
Im not a vet but , we both could be wrong
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 28 Feb 2024 04:30
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Unfortunately usually you end up having to just run over a shorter distance
Worst part is I can almost guarantee the sires initials are MB or SP
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 28 Feb 2024 23:31
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Matt Griffiths wrote:
Unfortunately usually you end up having to just run over a shorter distance
Worst part is I can almost guarantee the sires initials are MB or SP
Yup. Wish I knew sooner !!!
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 28 Feb 2024 23:32
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Peter Bryce wrote:
Problem can be as a result of Kibble Diets Salt at 2g per Coffee Cup of Kibble (1 to 3% of the 20kg bag of kibble). Excess Sodium Chloride hardens arteries restricts blood flow, Cramping, Stroke and Heart attack can follow. Lack of Iron supplement and subsequent thickened blood cant pass through Arteries,Heart,Brain,Liver and micro veins in Muscles which causes a lack of blood to the brain resulting in fitting and seizure. Red Blood Cells in Greyhounds have a life of 110 to 120 days and as cells are dying daily they need continual replacement - Hence Iron Supplement every second day. Worming products are Poison by nature and detoxification of the Liver is essential a few days after Worming. Methionine is great to achieve this. A Kidney flush is also essential to remove Toxins. Vitamin C Supplement is crucial for the absorption of Iron.
Thank you, mine are fed a primarily BARF diet. Very little kibble 50 grams a day at most.
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 29 Feb 2024 04:24
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Nathan Bendeich wrote:
Robynne
I am not experienced in this exact problem and in no way suggest you follow my advice , its just what I went through and experienced myself 1 time with 2 dogs
I had Poeple saying not enough calcium etc with a very fast Bitch , 18.60 old Richmond 19 flat bulli then every time up to 400 + she would collapse
In the end I stopped racing her coz I couldnt watch it and tried everything , heres what I tried
1. EXTERNAL LINK 2. Euro carb tablet 3. Bi-carb soda powder 4. Carprofen tablet , both tabs are inflammatories to keep muscles and urinery tracks clean and relaxed These are administered after the run . If you use a kidney flush before or close to a run , she will have no nutrients in the dog to perform and repair itself . It is 2 days after the run
Blood tests full and viewed by a GREYHOUND vet ! A normal vet wont have the understanding of the greyhound breed and their numbers !
This was step one above
Nothing came back from tests and it still occurred , I gave up on her after months of tinkering this around a bit and in the end , instead of caging her up in kennel , I now leave her out all day to work as she wants and I took her off everything including kibble ( due to salt ) and shes as good as ever and never had a drama again , mind u I never trialed her again on track !
Another dog I had similar issues with was a dog called big benno 40kg dog
The routine I used for him was a shot into muscle of Aminoplex 1.5 ml / tripart 1 ml combo ( a vet use will do double this when water diabetes occurs ) 3 days before race it swabs 48 hours
Then after he ran same day I would do the same shot with also a euro carb tab , bi- soda teaspoon and carprofen tab 1 in his feed that night Carprofen tab again with euro tab next day
Kidney flush every 14 days
Benno performed lovely and was upbeat under these procedures
EXTERNAL LINK These are the best rehydraters in the game after runs and trials . Throw away all your other recharging powders , they are a waste and will do more harm to kidneys then good
I use coconut water / lectade mix at track 50/50
After hard race runs when they put in an uninterrupted flying run I mix up the isotonic mix and put over meal ,most wont drink it on its own . Caution with ratio , i find 20 :1 perfect mixing in litre portions or small teaspoon to large cup mixed with kettle hot water . It will swab ! Its only for use over 2 days after race ! I leave 5 day gap for race .
Advice , besides above info is see your closest greyhound vet first but with full bloods and disclose everything you do in your routine as it will help him diagnose !
He will agree with all other procedures Ive said
Good luck robynne, its heartbreaking I know
Thank you Nathan for that information. I've also tried a lot of things and am still tinkering. Will look at what you have said. I already use Coconut Water and Lectade.
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 01 Mar 2024 05:41
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Hey Robyn, if you had a blood test not long after the issue, could you tell me what the creatinine kinase levels were please . I am most interested in this if all other markers were in range. If anything in regards to blood cells ( mainly red at top levels please identify). Otherwise you may be able to PM me the blood test results. Cheers
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 01 Mar 2024 10:22
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michael worth wrote:
Hey Robyn, if you had a blood test not long after the issue, could you tell me what the creatinine kinase levels were please . I am most interested in this if all other markers were in range. If anything in regards to blood cells ( mainly red at top levels please identify). Otherwise you may be able to PM me the blood test results. Cheers
Blood results Test Result Alert Units Reference Range
*NA:K RATIO 27.1 26.0 - 35.0 *ANION GAP 26.6 mmol/L 13.0 - 29.0 *GLUCOSE, FL.OX 4.2 mmol/L 3.3 - 6.8 *GLUCOSE, SERUM 0.0 Low mmol/L 3.3 - 6.8 A glucose result obtained from a plain serum clot tube has the potential to provide a falsely lowered result due to ongoing consumption of glucose in such tubes. The result obtained from a Fluoride Oxalate tube will be a more accurate estimation of the true glucose value. *UREA 8.6 mmol/L 4.5 - 11.2 *CREATININE 0.17 mmol/L 0.09 - 0.17 *SDMA 13 ug/dL 0 - 14 SDMA is a marker of glomerular filtration rate to help evaluate kidney function. It increases earlier than creatinine in some animals with chronic kidney disease. Unlike creatinine, SDMA is not impacted by lean body mass. SDMA and creatinine should be interpreted together, along with a complete urinalysis.
Both SDMA and creatinine are within the reference interval which indicates kidney function is likely good. However, if SDMA and/or creatinine is approaching the upper end of the reference interval, early kidney disease cannot be ruled out.
Note: In puppies,the SDMA reference interval is 0 - 16 ug/dL. In Greyhounds (adult and puppies) the SDMA reference interval is 0-19 ug/dL. SDMA and creatinine results should always be interpreted in light of body condition, urinalysis and other findings of kidney disease. *CALCIUM 2.9 High mmol/L 1.8 - 2.8 *PHOSPHATE 1.1 mmol/L 0.5 - 1.7
*CA:P RATIO 2.6 1.4 - 3.5 *PROTEIN, TOTAL 70 High g/L 50 - 69 *ALBUMIN 38 g/L 28 - 39 *GLOBULIN 32 g/L 21 - 33 *A:G RATIO 1.2 0.9 - 1.7 *BILIRUBIN, TOTAL 0 umol/L 0 - 7
*AMYLASE 493 IU/L 333 - 1500 *LIPASE (DGGR) 21 IU/L 0 - 250 *MAGNESIUM 1.2 High mmol/L 0.6 - 1.0 *GAMMA GT 4 IU/L 0 - 9 *SAMPLE APPEARANCE Moderate haemolysis This amount of haemolysis may falsely decrease T4, ALP, L-ALP, Bilirubin, Glucose and SDMA; may falsely increase Protein, Albumin, AST and K ; and may affect other tests (such as GGT) in an unpredictable manner.
In vitro haemolysis is more common in sick patients, when clinical factors can make RBCs more fragile. Haemolysis can be minimised by using an appropriate sized needle, avoiding excess negative pressure during blood collection, gentle mixing and handling of tubes after collection. For biochemistry, centrifugation after allowing the sample to clot is ideal with prompt removal of serum or plasma from the packed red cells if using a plain tube; if you use a serum separator gel tube (gold top) no further
Carole Brown Australia (Verified User) Posts 32355 Dogs 185 / Races 2 01 Mar 2024 15:42
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No haemoglobin or PCV levels done, Robynne ? These are very important.
Michael Worth Australia (Verified User) Posts 875 Dogs 2 / Races 0 01 Mar 2024 22:19
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Thanks Robynne, it seems the creatinine is at the upper scale. I would definitely limit their exercise immediately to lessen any further impact on your dogs. Also as Carole mentioned the red and white blood cell levels are very important and the PCV. Higher white cells can obviously tell you theres an underlying issue and not enough red cells and the dog will be starved of oxygen during a run. If you drop all kibble and lower the meat ratio, exchanging for vegetables and fruit, you can naturally low creatinine. The kidneys have to work very hard to get rid of creatinine.No cooked meat either as this doubles the creatinine in meat proteins. I noticed the salt levels are a little high also and should be looked at, Id recommend to stop using all commercial electrolyte additives and possibly use tank water if available. Cranberry juice or capsules would be the only kidney flush Id use except for possibly some Chinese kidney pills made from natural ingredients which can be purchased from your chemist. You will need to get that reading on the haemoglobin and PCV before you can go much further, but Id start working on the kidneys right away. Exercise also produces creatinine so thats why you need to minimise the exercise. Hope this helps. Cheers
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 02 Mar 2024 20:49
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Carole Brown wrote:
No haemoglobin or PCV levels done, Robynne ? These are very important.
*EOSINOPHILS 0.4 x10^9/L 0.0 - 0.4 *BASOPHILS% 0.3 % *BASOPHILS 0.0 x10^9/L 0.0 - 0.0 *BLOOD SMEAR The CBC parameters including WBC count EXAMINATION and differential have been generated by the Sysmex XN analyser.
I can't copy straight from the results for some reason.
Please be aware these results were AFTER the first seizure.
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 02 Mar 2024 20:53
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michael worth wrote:
Thanks Robynne, it seems the creatinine is at the upper scale. I would definitely limit their exercise immediately to lessen any further impact on your dogs. Also as Carole mentioned the red and white blood cell levels are very important and the PCV. Higher white cells can obviously tell you theres an underlying issue and not enough red cells and the dog will be starved of oxygen during a run. If you drop all kibble and lower the meat ratio, exchanging for vegetables and fruit, you can naturally low creatinine. The kidneys have to work very hard to get rid of creatinine.No cooked meat either as this doubles the creatinine in meat proteins. I noticed the salt levels are a little high also and should be looked at, Id recommend to stop using all commercial electrolyte additives and possibly use tank water if available. Cranberry juice or capsules would be the only kidney flush Id use except for possibly some Chinese kidney pills made from natural ingredients which can be purchased from your chemist. You will need to get that reading on the haemoglobin and PCV before you can go much further, but Id start working on the kidneys right away. Exercise also produces creatinine so thats why you need to minimise the exercise. Hope this helps. Cheers
These were taken straight after the first seizure, which was Jan 2023. The bitch that had a seizure this week I am just resting. I'm so disappointed that dogs can have this and be allowed to go to stud ( I just found out he had a seizure when racing ) yes obviously I didn't do "enough" homework but I only got to have one litter from my bitch and now I won't breed from her pups. People really suck.
Robert Conway Australia (Verified User) Posts 462 Dogs 4 / Races 0 08 Mar 2024 22:23
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HIWHAT WAS THE MOTHERS NAME
Geoffrey Scott-Smith Australia (Verified User) Posts 35 Dogs 2 / Races 0 10 Mar 2024 22:39
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Hi Robynne, If you google McDowells Herbal in Bathurst and fill out form detailing your dogs problem one of their herbalists will get back to you with recommendations. Definitley worth a try. Good luck Geoff
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 11 Mar 2024 09:28
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robert conway wrote:
HIWHAT WAS THE MOTHERS NAME
Cincinnati Lass
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 11 Mar 2024 09:29
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Geoffrey Scott-Smith wrote:
Hi Robynne, If you google McDowells Herbal in Bathurst and fill out form detailing your dogs problem one of their herbalists will get back to you with recommendations. Definitley worth a try. Good luck Geoff
Thank you I've dealt with McDowell's many times. I will see what they recommend thank for the reminder
Robynne Black Australia (Verified User) Posts 1449 Dogs 20 / Races 0 11 Mar 2024 09:29
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Matt Griffiths wrote:
Unfortunately usually you end up having to just run over a shorter distance
Worst part is I can almost guarantee the sires initials are MB or SP
Hi Matt , I sent you a PM
Matt Griffiths Australia (Verified User) Posts 1955 Dogs 56 / Races 2 12 Mar 2024 23:42