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Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 10 Aug 2023 10:12
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Like I've said so many times before, if you want to see something badly enough you will. Surely the RasX to Rosemary Bale and Gold Rush Bale has had a strong influence to. But yet again this isn't an example of what the topic is about. This is about Bekim Bale, not Sonic Flight.
Sonic Flight is a key element of strength that gives Bekim Bale his strength along with a number of examples that have already been mentioned
Goldrush Bale and Rosemary Bale are in no way a RasX cross
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 10:18
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Of course they are both RasX crosses in his pedigree. Throw in Elusive Rebel as well for good measure. It's a similar to the Gold Rush Bale RasX that is a huge influence in your bitches success.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 10 Aug 2023 10:20
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Of course they are both RasX crosses in his pedigree. Throw in Elusive Rebel as well for good measure. It's the same cross Gold Rush Bale RasX that is a huge influence in your bitch.
Also there are far more influences in the mating that led to my mating decision, the Goldrush Bale RasX was a minor part of it
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 10:31
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I was distinctly referring to the Goldrush Bale RasX
[Edited Admin]
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 10 Aug 2023 10:35
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Just because there are multiple RasX crosses in a pedigree doesn't mean that it will produce champions
It looks pretty on a pedigree page
Some breeders have been championing that for years and are fooling themselves into believing that its the magic formula
There are more failures than successes with it
It wasn't the dominating factor for my sire selection
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 10 Aug 2023 10:41
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Just because there are multiple RasX crosses in a pedigree doesn't mean that it will produce champions
Some breeders have been championing that for years and are fooling themselves into believing that its the magic formula
If it clicks its brilliant but there are more failures than successes
It wasn't the dominating factor for my sire selection
But yet you say Bekim Bale is part some kind of magic formula. Hypocrisy manifest
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 10 Aug 2023 10:49
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My take is the success of Zoha is quite evident in that the sires dam Greta Bale reintroduces Bartrim thru different individuals at the highest possible percentage https:/ CLICK HERE , back into the the same damline Bartrim was successful with previously producing Irma, Bekim & Heston.
Stanley Road was bred along the same lines https:/ CLICK HERE but you have to reverse the ped first to establish the positioning. This gives up the same Tesio linebreeding angle this time between Greta and Bartrim's sister Princess Bale.
It's what creates the vigour in the ped. Keep in mind the Wheeler lines in the above examples are heavily outcrossed to be able to cope with 100% intensities.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 10 Aug 2023 10:49
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Just because there are multiple RasX crosses in a pedigree doesn't mean that it will produce champions
Some breeders have been championing that for years and are fooling themselves into believing that its the magic formula
If it clicks its brilliant but there are more failures than successes
It wasn't the dominating factor for my sire selection
But yet you say Bekim Bale is part some kind of magic formula. Hypocrisy manifest
I never said that. I said he adds strength thats all.
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Sonic Flight is a key element of strength that gives Bekim Bale his strength along with a number of examples that have already been mentioned
It has to be combined with other compatible lines to get value out of him
You may only get a 5th grade city winner over 600m or 700m but it still adds strength
You can say the same thing about My Bro Fabio too but thats a different topic
So nothing hypocritical about that
If you don't want to understand it, then I can't help you anymore
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 11:03
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
My take is the success of Zoha is quite evident in that the sires dam Greta Bale reintroduces Bartrim thru different individuals at the highest possible percentage https:/ CLICK HERE , back into the the same damline Bartrim was successful with previously producing Irma, Bekim & Heston.
Stanley Road was bred along the same lines https:/ CLICK HERE but you have to reverse the ped first to establish the positioning. This gives up the same Tesio linebreeding angle this time between Greta and Bartrim's sister Princess Bale.
It's what creates the vigour in the ped. Keep in mind the Wheeler lines in the above examples are heavily outcrossed to be able to cope with 100% intensities.
What about Irma Bale being Hallucinate, Gold Rush Bale, Sonic Flight and Allen Deed being Sonic Flight, Wheres Pedro, Gold Rush Bale? Stanley Road dam offers Hallucinate, Gold Rush Bale, Phantom Flash - the Westmead dam line of Sonic Flight.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 10 Aug 2023 11:16
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I'm not saying they aren't influential but according to Tesio's theory reintroducing Bartrim back into the same damline thru different individuals is what creates the vigour.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 10 Aug 2023 20:21
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So thats because its in X and the biggest X %?? But, then you have the likes of Jarick Bale and Dusty Bourbski not containing the extra line of Gold Rush Bale. Qwara Bale has it considerably diluted through SH Avatar as dam sire and Dyna Lachlan as 2nd dam sire.
Mark William Claxton Australia (Verified User) Posts 958 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Aug 2023 00:41
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Brendan Wheeler is doing the same with alot of his bitches. It is not full proof but is a very good guide. Astute breeders take it all in & make an informed judgement. Smart practice.
Mark William Claxton Australia (Verified User) Posts 958 Dogs 0 / Races 0 11 Aug 2023 00:45
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Ie double crossing lines close up & therefore duplicating them. Is not rocket science.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 11 Aug 2023 01:47
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mark william claxton wrote:
Brendan Wheeler is doing the same with alot of his bitches. It is not full proof but is a very good guide. Astute breeders take it all in & make an informed judgement. Smart practice.
Agree, its not the be all, end all, but its worth noting
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 11 Aug 2023 01:49
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Line breeding and RasX have been a huge part of successful Greyhound breeding for centuries now. It's hardly a revelation.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 11 Aug 2023 05:39
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Darren Leeson wrote:
So thats because its in X and the biggest X %?? But, then you have the likes of Jarick Bale and Dusty Bourbski not containing the extra line of Gold Rush Bale. Qwara Bale has it considerably diluted through SH Avatar as dam sire and Dyna Lachlan as 2nd dam sire.
No. Tesio has nothing to do with X or my X path findings. They are two seperate theories.
In this case(Yachi Bale's litter) looking from a Tesio perspective the nick happens to be in x, however Tesio with greyhounds is more about positioning - i.e. the dam of the sire thru different individuals, reintroducing a sire previously successful with the broods damline back into the pedigree at a very high percentage.
Those different individuals that make up a very high percentage of Bartrim's ped(in this case), when brought together again in this manner, create vigour within the pedigree.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 11 Aug 2023 05:49
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Ok, so in Qwara Bale, its more the Wheres Pedro back into Gold Rush Bale, thats the Tesio factor? And the high intensity or %, means it needs to be as close up as possible?
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5958 Dogs 8 / Races 0 11 Aug 2023 06:11
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Re Qwara - If you wanted to breed a Princess Bale type the Tesio factor wld be https:/ CLICK HERE - the sire previously successful with the damline(Hallucinate) over the dam of the sire (Greta Bale)thru a different individual(Pedro).
You've got to be very careful with 100% intensities. Remember Wheeler's damlines are constantly outcrossed and it seems to cope better with 100% intensities thru different individuals.
My worry is that if breeders were to try this with different damlines that haven't been so regularly outcrossed it may lead to offspring that cant get the 500m trip. But that's just my opion.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 11 Aug 2023 07:18
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Starting to understand now, thanks. Agree, thats the real benefit of embedding outcross, it allows a pedigree to breath.
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 11 Aug 2023 07:44
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Ryan Vanderwert wrote:
Re Qwara - If you wanted to breed a Princess Bale type the Tesio factor wld be https:/ CLICK HERE - the sire previously successful with the damline(Hallucinate) over the dam of the sire (Greta Bale)thru a different individual(Pedro).
You've got to be very careful with 100% intensities. Remember Wheeler's damlines are constantly outcrossed and it seems to cope better with 100% intensities thru different individuals.
My worry is that if breeders were to try this with different damlines that haven't been so regularly outcrossed it may lead to offspring that cant get the 500m trip. But that's just my opion.
Totally agree with you Ryan
If you want the intensity that you speak of, you need heavily outcrossed compatible lines as well
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
