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Great Sires with Obscure Sires
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 16 Feb 2023 04:31
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Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 16 Feb 2023 04:54
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
The great Irish sire Droopys Sydney, a son of Duke Special, a very good dog but hardly spoken about in Larkhill Jo,/Spiral Nikita terms
USA sire Kinloch Brae, successful here and in Ireland/UK by Craigie Mo Town
Another who wasn't a household name or among the greats in the USA
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 16 Feb 2023 04:56
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If you look at lot of those a bit of a freak factor came about from breeding outside the square lol
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Feb 2023 07:19
Graham Moscow Australia (Verified User) Posts 1186 Dogs 0 / Races 0 16 Feb 2023 15:58
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Mark Staines wrote:
Little Blade was a very fast big track Dog.
He was a prolific sire of winners but the FOX was a FREAK !
Wild Port like Little Blade was a super fast big track Dog and a prolific sire of winners !
He sired Acacia Park the half Brother to Brother Fox who was also super fast and a very successful Sire !
How many TR broken or group races won by little blade. Wild Port a dud at stud
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 17 Feb 2023 00:10
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Graham Moscow wrote:
Mark Staines wrote:
Little Blade was a very fast big track Dog.
He was a prolific sire of winners but the FOX was a FREAK !
Wild Port like Little Blade was a super fast big track Dog and a prolific sire of winners !
He sired Acacia Park the half Brother to Brother Fox who was also super fast and a very successful Sire !
How many TR broken or group races won by little blade. Wild Port a dud at stud
Both were very fast one turn dogs
Little Blade was a big dog and flew around Harold Park , if I remember he was injury prone and didn't have many starts
His half brother Kelowna Prince (by Woolley Wilson) was also a very good HP/horseshoe track sprinter
Wild Port was also very good and a prolific winner at Harold Park and raced with the best. Came from a great litter including FFA HP sprinters Gold Spring & Rusty Brian.
Both were not leading sires but both were responsible for breed shaping sires
Graeme Beasley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3265 Dogs 27 / Races 5 17 Feb 2023 01:03
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
Another common theme is the performance of their dams.
Wade Gallagher Australia (Verified User) Posts 372 Dogs 117 / Races 0 17 Feb 2023 01:10
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
I'm sure others older than myself can correct me if wrong but not sure Pretty Short belongs on this list, didn't think you could call Tangaloa obscure?
Sandro Bechini Australia (Verified User) Posts 19488 Dogs 15268 / Races 1856 17 Feb 2023 01:21
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Wade Gallagher wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
I'm sure others older than myself can correct me if wrong but not sure Pretty Short belongs on this list, didn't think you could call Tangaloa obscure?
He doesn't Wade, Tangaloa was a leading sire himself
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 17 Feb 2023 02:54
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Like I said it was a quick list off the top of my head. I got that one wrong.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 17 Feb 2023 03:00
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Graeme Beasley wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
Another common theme is the performance of their dams.
In what sense?
Graeme Beasley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3265 Dogs 27 / Races 5 17 Feb 2023 13:21
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Graeme Beasley wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
Another common theme is the performance of their dams.
In what sense?
Racing ability.
Paul Dicks Australia (Verified User) Posts 10281 Dogs 120 / Races 252 17 Feb 2023 14:31
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Graeme Beasley wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Graeme Beasley wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
Another common theme is the performance of their dams.
In what sense?
Racing ability.
Poor racing ability or good racing ability?
Graeme Beasley Australia (Verified User) Posts 3265 Dogs 27 / Races 5 18 Feb 2023 02:06
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Paul Dicks wrote:
Graeme Beasley wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Graeme Beasley wrote:
Paul Dicks wrote:
Sandro Bechini wrote:
Whether its a coincidence or not, but the greats seem to have a common theme, their own sire wasn't very popular
What a spectacular observation Sandro. It's true of so many great sires and I mean breed changers. I stolen this from another thread. This comment deserves its own topic. Here's a few off the top of my head.
Pretty Short Acacia Park Brett Lee Malawis Prince Fernando Bale Just The Best Temlee Head Honcho
to a lesser extent more recently.
Zambrora Brookie Allen Deed Keybow
Another common theme is the performance of their dams.
In what sense?
Racing ability.
Poor racing ability or good racing ability?
Pretty Short - dam Pretty New won the Qld Futurity (don't know what else) Acacia Park - dam Pitstock Park (don't know her racing record) Brett Lee - dam Sobbing Sal multiple city winner, won Geelong Cup and multiple Group finalist Malawis Prince - dam Duchess Marina multiple city winner Fernando Bale - dam Chloe Allen multiple city winner and Group placed Just The Best - dam Flying Amy, she went ok Temlee - dam Temora Lee (don't know her racing record) Head Honcho - dam Fitzroy Lass multiple city winner
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1343 Dogs 154 / Races 139 18 Feb 2023 10:47
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From memory of reading about them.
Tivoli Chief came about to stand stud alongside Clay Moss, Worthing at Tony Marinos stud. Through a failed deal trying to acquire top NSW stud dog Proper Prince. Paul Cauchi suggested to Tony, why not give Tivoli Chief a chance in VIC. He was a great dog, lead the Derby by 10L, but broke down. At the time Tivoli Chief was a 7yo , but Paul Cauchi being at the top of the game, Tony took his advice and stood him in VIC. It was a battle to get bitches for him. Pretty sure David Brasch wrote an article on Temora Lee, being either unraced or a ratbag. RESULT - the greatest stud dog of them all Temlee .
DB, wrote articles on Pitstock Park, Octum, Princess Diro and Glen Aussie. All of whom were ordinary race performers. Wild Port, Little Blade like so many others. Werent Group 1 winners. They were fast one turn dogs.
Malawis Prince came about from the owners of Duchess Marina lending her back to her breeders to breed the first litter. Malawi who barely had a bitch at the time. Was chosen because the breeder like him and the mating and he was a good hard chaser.
They were offering buy a Kelsos Fusileer and get two of the other U.S. sires sent out for free. In a desperate attempt to get Oz breeders to use him and Fernando Bale gets produced.
Gun Law Osti was a freak, but breeders barely used him, because they thought he went missing in finals. Implying he didnt have the biggest heart. Brett Lee didnt come about until a few seasons at Stud.
Just do your own thing and you never know how good a dog you might produce. Might even get a breed-shaper like above.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
