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Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5959 Dogs 8 / Races 0 01 Apr 2024 11:26
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Steven John Lloyd wrote:
Ryan, firstly I take & look @ Breeding & Bloodlines very seriously. I will have a laugh & joke with anyone. I am merely asking a Question in regards to the Mentioned Greyhounds in regards to their Track Speed / Ability what have they in common in regards to their Pedigree. I very rarely talk to anyone in regards Breeding Theories as everyone has their own opinions which is rightly so & good luck to whoever sails that route. Should you not know the Pedigree similarity of The 3 Dogs, hey ho thats life. The post has been up for 3 hours... it seems like you havent attempted to work on it
Steven I just spent over an hour with someone on the phone who wants to spend decent money buying pups out of a particular litter.
Almost an hr of that time was spent specifically comparing nicks between the sire and dam (as I have shown in this thread), that were actually present in the mating at an extremely high percentage, just to give him an idea what his chances are of acquiring a possible city type conveyance from that particular litter.
That's what I do.
I really don't have time for quizzes, people who don't wish to share their ideas or shroud their ideas in mystery.
No defence needed against a self loving try hard , we are all officially spewing !
Tip you should have taken your pretend expert advice on the barcia straw to your failed Fernando litter ( Freida ) that was ONLY a fast dog to a fast bitch theory that worked out just like all the other wishful litters out there !
Lucky you didnt get your hands on Nicki fields ! Going off results it would have been a big loss to never see hooked on scotch do his thing due to whelping illnesses
Being such an expert how come you never picked up on the relation and Nick between ace high rumble found in freida to barcia bale ?? Its a doozy to miss bud !
Then looking ahead barcia is also covering your love sire droopy thru top honcho !
The path you chose for your tangible self for the best Bitch youll ever own is nothing short of a disaster and hardly displays youve proven anything to yourself .
Jag another one waffle boy
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1344 Dogs 154 / Races 139 01 Apr 2024 19:22
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Thanks for playing along haha!
Steven John Lloyd United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 51 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 06:04
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So there seems to be no Plausible Answer to the Question in regards to the 3 Greyhounds put up . Ballydoyle Honey, Fernando Bale & Paradise Maddison , I kept it @ 3 as any more would probably have taken longer to resolve. They all carry the Balance of Nature Genes that enables them to Perform @ an above standard level ,providing the Expertise & Attention to detail Rearing that is paramount to achieve this goal is given. As we know you cannot beat Nature, you can walk by the side of it or walk with it . Many other Greyhounds carry these Genes for example Droopys Vierie , Ballymac Maeve, Temlee, Zero Ten , Timor Blue, Droopys Sydney, Born Warrior & Skipping Chick & Hacksaw. So many of the Top Breeders & Rearers around the World have & continue to scratch their heads as to why that Litter was Top Class & that one cant even walk . The Balance of Nature is Unbeatable. Finding it is the Question.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5959 Dogs 8 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 06:28
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so how do we/you quantify this Steven ?
Steven John Lloyd United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 51 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 06:44
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Well Ryan Ive put up the Litters , its up to you to research & find... bearing in mind its taken me years to Resolve it . Mind you there are Individuals , Organisations & Companies around & in Australia too be more Precise who as we speak are Proclaiming too know a Certain Racehorse Breeders secret or pathway or theory... but their Frauds & they damm well know it . If they knew the Pathway they would be Matching up Sire / Dam to achieve Top Class Stock. They aint doing it , why? . Their Frauds & are too this day proclaiming Supremacy... Liars. So Ryan use your own judgment, be wary of who you take on board & good Luck .
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5959 Dogs 8 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 07:02
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Surely something like this is far more quantitative ?
A list of intensities they had been bred back to through a primary litterm8 or full blood relation crosses in the x path:
Phantom Flash: (6x7) Quare Fire & (7x6) The Grand Duchess Westmead Flight: (6x7) Quare Fire & (7x6) The Grand Duchess Hillcroft Josie: (8x9x9) Quare Fire & (8x9) The Grand Duchess Jim Joes Up: (8x10x10)Quare Fire & (8x11) The Grand Duchess Teds Jo: (8x10x9) Quare Fire Mountleader Peer: (8x8) Quare Fire Linda's Champion: (5x5) Quare Fire Westmead Hawk: (8x10x11)Quare Fire & (8x9) Prairie Peg
Quare Fire through littermates Yoblstrap,The Grand Duchess & The Grand Fire. The Grand Duchess mainly through littermates Bunclody Queen & The Grand Prince. Hillcroft Josie is thru full blood relation The Grand Canal (TG Duchess). Prairie Peg is through Prairie Flash & Prairie Heather. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vans Escalade: (5x5) Maythorn Pride Premier Fantasy: (6x5) Maythorn Pride
Through littermates Kasco Lady, Miss Hilary, Bleak Weather & Slight Chill respectively. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Through littermates Mad Tanist, Astra & full blood relation Maddest Yet ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool Performance: (7x8) Clomoney Grand
Through full blood realtions Clomoney Jet, Kilbelin Style ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some Picture: (10x9) Cottage Daisy
Through littermates Paving Stone & Shannon Side ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shelbourne Becky: (11x11) Shaggy Shore
Through littermates Shaggy Lad & Glenview Shaggy --------------------------------------------------------------------
What was your criteria ?
Steven John Lloyd United Kingdom (Verified User) Posts 51 Dogs 0 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 07:22
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Ryan, I admire your research aptitude, BUT to me youre complicating the Process. Keep things Basic .... all the info youve just added is to me irrelevant , theres no Platform, no Platform no Foundation. Ryan take this on Board One For Lloyd- Midland Puppy Derby Winner 1990 = cost 275 Like Gold - Fastest Animal to go up Cheltenham Hill 2005 = 300 Wee Paris - Threw Fastest Litter to come out of Wales = Cost 300 And theres more, but cannot be bothered to put them up . You as an individual & enthusiast in regards to Breeding Theories & Assessments have to back yourself, your theories on Matings & Buying Stock... Stop putting it down on paper & do it in the Barn
The Dailys must have used differential Balance of nature for their first 3 litters to Droopys
I thought Id heard it all .
Ps . You must have been so close to solving the puzzle Darren , thanks for narrowing it down for us and making it easier in regards to Waverley supreme in coming to the correct conclusion in what 3 dogs have in common !
Wow , I did say this was a circus , I need to listen to my own words more often
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5959 Dogs 8 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 08:30
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I've bred my litters and reared them myself Steven and I did that to disprove some of my theories. I don't know why people think I haven't, I just got sick of trainers returning injured dogs whilst I had pups on the ground, so I haven't bred my own for the last 15yrs.
x-path is genetics so there is definitely foundation there.
I do buy the odd dog from pedigrees I'm involved with if they're for sale, but decent people/trainers being rubbed out for long periods for ridiculous reasons doesn't help with continuity either, then there's the situation now............why would you bother........just found it easier to be involved with racehorses at present.
Steven would appreciate the detail/data that quantifies what you're saying even if it was emailed. My email addy is in my user profile if you were to be so kind. Thanks in advance.
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1344 Dogs 154 / Races 139 02 Apr 2024 10:54
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Darren Leeson wrote:
The same reason Waverley Supreme had great success in this country! However, all 3 pedigrees have their own unique and acute correlations, which undoubtedly elevates them above the general top class successes!
Its one of the reasons why One Time Only is standing in Australia and why Sobbing Sal should work well with Jackslittlething!
This is 100% the reason. Ive narrowed it down to give anyone a chance to discover it. Its also, what other successful breeders know full well. But, its only the commonality and foundation to tie in each of the 3 successes. Why they are all time greats, will have more to do with what I mentioned above their own unique and acute correlations, between each of the sire and dams.
On unique and acute correlations between sire and dam..
The hottest sprinter in Oz atm Mackenna has her own unique and acute correlations between her sire and dam. Which sees her sired by the 43/48 current Greyhound Clubs Australia sire rankings. Yet has the 2nd fastest ever time around Wentworth Park. Something Im yet to see in other Whiskey Riot progeny.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5959 Dogs 8 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 12:46
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I see Mackenna https:/ CLICK HERE as pure Tesio reintroduction of a sire Collision previously successful with a damline through different individuals, and within 3 gens making the nick ultra potent.
To get to this stage you need to:
1)reverse the pedigree first i.e. put her dam Alcyone's brother over Whiskey Riots sister https:/ CLICK HERE and;
2)place the Sire previously successful with the damline (Collision) over the choice of sires dam Carol Beer https:/ CLICK HERE
It's a way of creating vigour within a pedigree by reintroducing 94% (15/16 lines covered in the 5th gen) of Collision, through different individuals back into the damline he was previously successful with, therefore creating a breeding parallel to Group performer Evil Punk.
It's classic Tesio!
Darren Leeson Australia (Verified User) Posts 1344 Dogs 154 / Races 139 02 Apr 2024 14:57
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Ryan can you go through all of Whisky Riots matings and tell us all how many of his matings are classic Tesio and list them here? Or at least tell us how many or the percentage?
What I see in Mackenna, Ive only seen in 3 other greyhounds to date in this country.
1. Multiple Group 1 winner at stud. 2. Was a star on the rise, before tragically breaking down. Still won a feature race. 3. Group race winner and sub 29.45 winning greyhound around Wentworth Park.
Ryan Vanderwert Australia (Verified User) Posts 5959 Dogs 8 / Races 0 02 Apr 2024 21:01
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Sure Darren I'll do that for a person who won't give up the most basic argument or detail as to why he thinks Droopys Sydney is a success at stud,
Darren Leeson wrote:
......Im not going to share all my hard work discovering what I have........
and personally attacks me on a public forum with the most blatent lies. I'll spend the 200 hrs, over 8 days of solid work with no sleep, to do that for you.
Here's a huge tip - don't hold your breath for a response. ==================================================================
I saw your post that was just deleted Darren where you stated we'd both know that there wld be many Collision nicks like in Mackenna's ped with other Whiskey matings. I didn't know that at all so I thought I'd look at the Fastrack page that Mackenna's litter by Whiskey was on, and just check the Collision nick linebred through different individuals for Whiskey matings in the same position that Carol Beer was in as positioning in a pedigree is paramount with Tesio.
Remember the minimum criteria for greyhounds is 88% to hopefully breed a city type and Carol Beer (Mackenna's grandam) carried different individuals that gave up 94% of Collisions ped within 5 gens, so here we go:
Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 63% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 63% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 69% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 69% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) 88% meets criteria 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 63% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 69% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 56% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 44% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 82% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 63% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 63% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 63% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 69% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens
Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) doesnt look like it with the duplication however different individuals are better seen here: Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) 94% meets criteria 5 gens
Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 50% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 50% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 82% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 69% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) nope 75% within 5 gens Greyhound Testmating (greyhound-data.com) 94% meets criteria 5 gens
So there's 2 out of 28 matings that have the same Tesio nick as Mackenna, and 1 that meets the minimum 88% criteria which is approx a third of Whisky stock listed on Fastrack. Hardly many is it ?
Just another thing, you don't learn anything if you don't share info because you're never challenged, and the end result is you never improve. Cheers.
P.S. dunno what happened with the click here's and I'm not doing it again!
Hit the nail on the head Ryan ! No worse a trait in someone that doesnt know how to get out of their own way !
Except when its a GRP broods first litter app ??? They step aside
Whether its true right or wrong your abilities to perform or break down a possible idea in Peds and check the possibilities in results for proof is mind blowing and to be questioned or slanged purely because an individual cant mentally wrap their own head around it ? Throws it in the bin !
Lmao
Think about it .. whats the advantage with this way of negativity when anyone elses way is just as questionable if not more ! Having one off examples is crud compared to taking the WHOLE book of results and getting the exact percentage for a precise pattern check ?
Laughable , still getting over Balance of Nature ?? What an exact or precise judgment and conclusion
Top work Ryan , unbelievable as always and we have to revisit the flipped ped in which mackenna has unveiled a Nick and is clearly a cut above in ability when given the chance
Jack Ogilvie Australia (Verified User) Posts 15483 Dogs 0 / Races 1 16 Apr 2024 10:50
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Just notice a DS stray was just sold for 10k ,I thought it might have fetched 12k.
Do you have questions about breeding theories? 
